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Post by question on Jul 29, 2011 13:50:32 GMT -5
"Look at it this way, who has the ability to get the job done with out enticing Escalation?" He paused for a moment, "Question cleaned up hub city with all those costumed Villains showing up. Because he did what was necessary. " He spoke even though it was about himself, he was quite serious. A lot of Bruce's an the cities issues could have been solved long ago if he would just save those who couldn't be saved from them selves.
He shook his head, "any ways, no need to pay attention to me, I'm right winged an still agree with the death penalty."
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Post by powermaniac184 on Jul 29, 2011 14:28:50 GMT -5
Lisa had not said anything for a few minutes, after all she figured to get to know the ladies a little better. Politics, corruption, and hope were central themes that were brought up. Also a distaste for fed's taking over in a harsh manner. Then the man at the booth banged his head, later talking about the question and how he cleaned up Hub city. Lisa had never heard of it, but from the talk the city was like Gotham in the past, and cleaner in the present. " Except that vigilantes are against the law, and while their efforts are appreciated one day they will have to answer for their crimes. But the Feds have been taking the "federal approach" to this which is use martial law to get things that you want. The bill should have been shot down in Congress. It's not just the criminals who will fight them it will be the heroes too."
Lisa picked up the white coffee glass and sipped the black liquid, it was somewhat warm yet refreshing.
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Post by megan on Jul 29, 2011 15:48:19 GMT -5
Glancing up at the man at the other table, Margaret comments, "That may be, or it may be that Hub is just a different city. But I don't like the idea of one man pickin' who deserves to die. Should be a jury, at least." She shakes her head. While she's not going to argue that certain criminals should die, she does hesitate to support a vigilante taking it upon himself to dispense justice. "'Course, I wouldn't argue that justice is too slow for a lot of these escape artists - but it still don't sit well to leave it to a vigilante." One of the reasons why she's secretly a supporter of Batman - secretly because too many of her best customers wouldn't like that.
When she hears Lisa's comment, Margaret nods and adds, "And not just criminals and heroes but citizens at this rate - and their own people if it gets worse. 'Cause it's that obvious it goes too far." But, not one to let that sign of optimism stay out there for too long unqualified, she adds, "Only question is, how many of us'll get killed before the powers that be realize what idiots they are?"
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Post by powermaniac184 on Jul 29, 2011 17:57:39 GMT -5
Taking what has already been said, Lisa begins eating her piece of cake realizing she hasn't touched it yet. The dark, rich, and simple taste of chocolate can do wonders for the brain and stomach. She uses her napkin to wipe away the remaining smudges of the chocolate. The fork clashes with the cake like a spear into the chest. "Too many to count for sure. Last time the Feds tried something like this three hundred people were killed in Kansas, towns destroyed, lives shattered. The people who warned the feds were put in chains and sent to security prisons. Already people are getting arrested or having their visa denied. Now ten years later, the feds pull the same move, now with congressional approval." Lisa shuttered as her eyes became shaded and closed. If Lisa did anything out of measure, she would be sent to one of those cells for sure. Her boss, now had to comply to work with the FBI. Whole cases shut down and being examined by other detectives and agents.
She glanced at the man who seemed tired and full of questions. Like New York, Gotham has all types of people.
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Post by rebecca on Jul 29, 2011 21:16:42 GMT -5
"I don't think the vigilantes are that bad, the heroes either," Rebecca responded now looking to her empty cup of coffee. "I mean sure, I may not fully agree with giving one man the sole power to choose who lives and who dies, but it's not like they just kill a first time offender. Remember that. The people who Question, who any of the vigilantes have disposed of...They were repeat violators. They'd had their chances."
She drummed her fingers on the table. "The simple fact is, the law was broken in this city and Batman has helped those who needed to have the courage to fix it gain that courage. He protects them and when he's done, him and the rest of the vigilantes...They won't be punished, they shouldn't be in my opinion. Too many support them and besides," she points out with a finger, "Batman doesn't kill anyone."
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Post by powermaniac184 on Jul 29, 2011 22:22:46 GMT -5
Rebecca was young and had opinions solid as mountains. But no one is outside of the law, especially batman. Batman may be dedicated and essential to Gotham, but that doesn't mean he won't be shot at or imprisoned. "Rebecca, that doesn't mean the feds won't. You can't just cut off a city for crime and expect no casualties no matter how fast and effective the plan will be. Just like the courtroom experience, you can't just say things that degrade statements without getting a warning."
She looked at the muffin with quick eyes.
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Post by question on Jul 29, 2011 22:42:55 GMT -5
"But the difference is made when the Vigilante knows when its time to lay down arms. Not all of them deserve to die, not saying that any of them deserve it but the simplest way to put it is Kill one save thousands." Vic Looked at Lisa, "they are going after the hero's too?! Are they out of their minds? " he paused for a moment, "never mind this is the united states government we're talking about they do what they want an don't care who has to suffer for it."
He wanted to tell them that it wasn't the government, but the people controlling it, figure heads is all congress was. Vic shook his head an chugged the cup of coffee.
"who said anything about it being effective? right now the city supports their heroes. When the feds turn on them so will the city, Besides you don't get warnings out side of the court room. you don't get a piece of paper an pay a fine, situations like this, Martial law, The government takes nothing into consideration an they Kill on site just for being a nay sayer. Tell me, Where is the Justice in that?"
He leaned back into the seat again, "Who will bring the the feds in for Killing under martial law? No one, they will burn the city to the ground an claim it an accident, cover it up like its was all some... nightmare."
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Post by powermaniac184 on Jul 29, 2011 22:51:17 GMT -5
She turned to the question, "If your not wearing an FBI, police, or some type of badge you will be interrogated and sentenced away. No, this isn't justice, but this is how things are. People are greedy once they realize that they have nothing left to fight for. Well, ten years ago in Kansas, after the martial law incident. It took seven years for evidence to be mounted and false charges presented. Some died in the cells, other's survived. It all depends on where your loyalties lie; the feds, the rogues, the civilians, or the heroes."
She didn't want to make it sound meloncholy but it was true, the fed's didn't have loyalty to anyone, not for Lisa and the D.A. office or Gordon's office. It was either "Do it the right way, or do it wrong".
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Post by megan on Jul 30, 2011 1:21:55 GMT -5
Margaret can do little else but shake her head. She's neither influential enough nor young enough to go out and actually try to do something about any of this. All she can really do is keep her head down and hope she doesn't get arrested for anything. Which doesn't sound very promising, but keeping her head down so she doesn't get shot by the other side of the coin is already par for the course for her. She just worries that the FBI types might be a bit more observant than the rogues and other criminals.
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Post by rebecca on Jul 30, 2011 1:37:32 GMT -5
"Well, luckily, I'm not a lawyer," Rebecca told her shortly. "Batman and the Question and the rest of them will not be brought to justice, because they bring justice. They don't think that they're necessarily above the law, but when the police and people in power are corrupt and allowing their city to be overrun, I think breaking what is suppose to be the law is justified."
She looked at Vic and nodded, "They will cover it up when the situation goes wrong. They won't care about us, only about saving their own reputations."
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Post by question on Jul 30, 2011 1:57:09 GMT -5
"Maybe your not familiar with the phrase not every king wears a crown, Same goes for heroes. Sometimes doing what is right, means being in the social wrong. Doesn't mean that it is necessarily evil. Man made laws, to keep people in control, when the people who are put in place to uphold those laws cannot do it but wont step down. Anarchy, With out fear of punishment, people will do what they please." Vic quite frankly didn't think that this lady had her eyes open to the real nature of things, she seemed coddled by her, what he could guess to say, higher placement in society.
"An just because you have a badge, or a three letter acronym in your title doesn't make you the law. An telling people they can't do or have something only makes them want it more. Places that take the hand that steals have less robberies, countries with out gun control have less shootings. Facts don't lie. People do. the Government Does."
An just think, he came here to get away from this sort of thing.
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Last Edit: Jul 30, 2011 22:54:00 GMT -5 by powermaniac184
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Post by powermaniac184 on Jul 30, 2011 22:52:27 GMT -5
Lisa quickly cut through his butter arguement " I am aware of it. I didn't spend five years in Law school at New York for nothing. I didn't spend months paying for my mother's bills for nothing, and I didn't spend days in courtroom proving that people who committ crimes will be punished by law. It doesn't matter who you are and what you believe in, things change drastically when something like this happens. You think the government won't touch the batman or heroes; your dead wrong. The government believes it is doing the right thing, it's our job to prove to them that they made the wrong choice. "
Most people, especially judges and other lawyers think that Lisa is a dumb red-head is obssessed with her job. They say something snarky and out of line, and she defends herself. She's used to being called insensitive bitch, but she brushed it off with cyncism and lawful reasoning.
She looked back at Rebecca hoping that she would but in and add to the pot of conversation that was boiling with taste. The black and rich coffee slipped down her throat until she was finished.
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Post by megan on Jul 30, 2011 23:11:35 GMT -5
Glancing at Lisa, Margaret suddenly asks, "Oh? And how do people like us prove that? Picket city hall? Start a petition? It strikes me that the criminals in Gotham won't need our help proving how wrong the feds are. And the vigilantes will prove themselves by cleaning up their mess for them when it all goes to hell. All the rest of us can really do is keep doing our jobs - if we can." Margaret keeps on having to remind herself of the shortages she sees on the horizon for the supplies she needs to run her cafe - what on earth is she supposed to do when they actually happen?
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Post by rebecca on Jul 30, 2011 23:23:18 GMT -5
"I agree with you," Rebecca nodded to Margaret. "All we can do is continue to do our jobs. I have faith that the Rogues and Vigilantes and the rest will show the feds their shortcomings. I have no doubts about that. I'm just worried how we'll be affected by the government's arrogance, ignorance, you choose which one. I think it's both."
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Post by question on Jul 31, 2011 18:13:34 GMT -5
"Seriously, Are you even listing, I said that If they did, they are in for it. I am a Reporter, I view all sides of a story. " He paused for a moment, "are you really aware of it or are you just tell yourself that to cope. You can says something an back it up but not truly believe in it. "
Vic's attention was to Margaret, this lady knew her stuff, maybe she should look in to politics, hell he might even cast a vote for once.
"Of course the vigilantes will be the ones cleaning up the mess, They always will do the right thing even when its not what people want but what they need, even if they don't know that they need it. Its not about right or wrong but what is necessary. Because there is no defined act of good or evil, its like truth, its not knowable. Its skewed behind the eyes that see it. "
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